Legislature(1995 - 1996)

01/23/1996 09:00 AM House O&G

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
             HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON OIL AND GAS                            
                        January 23, 1996                                       
                           9:11 a.m.                                           
                                                                               
                                                                               
 MEMBERS PRESENT                                                               
                                                                               
 Representative Norman Rokeberg, Chair                                         
 Representative Scott Ogan, Vice Chair                                         
 Representative Gary Davis                                                     
 Representative Bill Williams                                                  
 Representative Tom Brice                                                      
 Representative Bettye Davis                                                   
 Representative David Finkelstein                                              
                                                                               
 MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                
                                                                               
 None                                                                          
                                                                               
 COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                            
                                                                               
 HOUSE BILL NO. 325                                                            
 "An Act authorizing suspension of payment of a portion of the                 
 royalty due the state for initial production of heavy oil from                
 wells on the Arctic Slope."                                                   
                                                                               
       - PASSED CSHB 325(O&G) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                 
                                                                               
 PREVIOUS ACTION                                                               
                                                                               
 BILL:  HB 325                                                              
 SHORT TITLE: ROYALTY SUSPENSION: N. SLOPE HEAVY OIL                          
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) GREEN                                           
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG            ACTION                                         
 04/28/95      1633    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 04/28/95      1633    (H)   OIL & GAS, RESOURCES, FINANCE                     
 10/17/95              (H)   O&G AT 01:00 PM ANCHORAGE LIO                     
 10/17/95              (H)   MINUTE(O&G)                                       
 11/14/95              (H)   O&G AT 02:00 PM ANCHORAGE LIO                     
 11/14/95              (H)   MINUTE(O&G)                                       
 01/18/96              (H)   O&G AT 10:00 AM CAPITOL 124                       
 01/23/96              (H)   O&G AT 09:00 AM CAPITOL 124                       
 01/26/96              (H)   RES AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 124                       
                                                                               
 WITNESS REGISTER                                                              
                                                                               
 JEFFREY LOGAN, Legislative Aide                                               
   to Representative Joe Green                                                 
 Alaska State Legislature                                                      
 State Capitol, Room 24                                                        
 Juneau, AK  99801                                                             
 Telephone: (907) 465-4931                                                     
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided information on HB 325                           
                                                                               
 ED BEHM, Heavy Oil Team Leader                                                
 Milne Point Unit                                                              
 OXY USA, Incorporated                                                         
 Midland, Texas  79710                                                         
 Telephone;  (915) 685-5673                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Commented on HB 325                                      
                                                                               
 BRUCE POLICKY, Manager                                                        
 Milne Point Unit                                                              
 BP Exploration (Alaska) Incorporated                                          
 900 East Benson Boulevard                                                     
 Anchorage, Alaska  99519                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 564-5232                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN                                                      
 Alaska State Legislature                                                      
 State Capitol, Room 24                                                        
 Juneau, AK  99801                                                             
 Telephone: (907) 465-4931                                                     
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Sponsor of HB 325                                        
                                                                               
 KENNETH A. BOYD, Director                                                     
 Division of Oil and Gas                                                       
 Department of Natural Resources                                               
 3601 C Street, Suite 1380                                                     
 Anchorage, Alaska  99503-5948                                                 
 Telephone:  (907) 762-2547                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Commented on HB 325                                      
                                                                               
 CHARLES LOGSDON, Chief Petroleum Economist                                    
 Oil and Gas Audit Division                                                    
 Department of Revenue                                                         
 550 West Seventh Avenue, Suite 570                                            
 Anchorage, Alaska  99501                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 276-1363, Extension 265                                     
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Commented on HB 325                                      
                                                                               
 JON TILLINGHAST, Attorney                                                     
 OXY USA, Incorporated                                                         
 One Sealaska Plaza, Suite 300                                                 
 Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                         
 Telephone:  (907) 586-1400                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Commented on HB 325                                      
                                                                               
 ACTION NARRATIVE                                                              
                                                                               
 TAPE 96-1, SIDE A                                                             
 Number 000                                                                    
                                                                               
 The House Oil & Gas Special Committee was called to order by                  
 Chairman Norman Rokeberg at 9:11 a.m.  Members present at the call            
 to order by Chairman Norman Rokeberg were Representatives Rokeberg,           
 Ogan, G. Davis, Williams, Brice, and B. Davis.  Representative                
 Finkelstein was absent.  A quorum was present.  This meeting was              
 teleconferenced to Anchorage/                                                 
 HB 325 ROYALTY SUSPENSION: N. SLOPE HEAVY OIL                             
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG announced that the agenda was HB 325.  He                   
 announced that at the November 14, 1995 meeting a committee                   
 substitute for HB 325 was adopted, version 9-LS1122\K.                        
                                                                               
 Number 250                                                                    
                                                                               
 JEFFREY LOGAN, Legislative Aide to Representative Joe Green who is            
 the sponsor of HB 325, was first to testify.  He said a thorough              
 review of CSHB 325 has not been done, but he urged committee                  
 support for HB 325.                                                           
                                                                               
 Number 302                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN asked for a brief outline of the CSHB
 325.                                                                          
                                                                               
 Number 310                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG announced that Representative Joe Green had                 
 joined the committee.  Chairman Rokeberg then gave a brief overview           
 of the changes in CSHB 325 which included changes in the language             
 from the United States code definition of heavy oil to a definition           
 of 20 degrees API gravity.  Additionally CSHB 325 provides a                  
 ceiling of $15 per barrel of oil, in the event that there is an               
 increase of prices.  The last change was an addition of a sunset              
 provision after ten years.                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 522                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN moved for the adoption of CSHB 325, version 9-            
 LS1122\R.  Hearing no objections it was so ordered.                           
                                                                               
 Number 545                                                                    
                                                                               
 ED BEHM, Heavy Oil Team Leader, Milne Point Unit, Occidental Oil,             
 Incorporated, was next to testify.  He gave a brief overview of               
 Occidental Oil Company and stated that the Milne Point Unit is a              
 significant asset to Occidental.  He referred to a hand-out with              
 the front page reading, "Who is Occidental Oil and Gas                        
 Corporation."  He said a pilot project in the Schrader Bluff has              
 produced about 3,500 barrels of oil per day.  The wells have                  
 produced steady rates of oil but on a marginal rate.  He described            
 heavy oil as having low gravity, being thick, produces slowly over            
 a long period of time, it is disadvantaged in market place                    
 especially with the North Slope transportation costs, and it is               
 capital intensive.                                                            
                                                                               
 MR. BEHM said Occidental did a project five years ago in which they           
 dug 21 wells in order to proof up technology.  They spent $126                
 million, producing 275 barrels of oil per day per well for an                 
 expected recovery of 13 million barrels making the recovery rate at           
 $9.30 per barrel making it uneconomical.                                      
                                                                               
 MR. BEHM said HB 207 was seen as a positive change in Alaskan                 
 legislation.  He said the key is to get the project to a                      
 competitive investment level with other opportunities worldwide.              
 He said that a 15 percent rate of return is needed to cover                   
 overhead, cost of capital, and some risk Occidental thinks that               
 more Schrader Bluff wells could be drilled by as early as the                 
 Spring of the 1995 forecast.  He said this 15 percent rate of                 
 return has been listed in other sources worldwide.                            
                                                                               
 MR. BEHM said studies in the Schrader Bluff area determined the               
 rate of return at 12.8 percent with a payback period of 6.5 years.            
 These figures are not conducive to investment, but with the support           
 of straightforward legislation such as HB 325 they can be                     
 economically viable.  With proposed legislation in HB 325, the rate           
 of return drops to 15.9 percent with a payback period of 5.4 years            
 and a profit of $100,000 per well.  He said this is not a windfall            
 profit to oil companies.                                                      
                                                                               
 MR. BEHM talked about the effects on the state with the development           
 of heavy oil.  He said a company will reinvest in wells every year,           
 for a total investment time of ten years.  So, the state will end             
 up receiving more revenues from more wells at the conclusion of the           
 royalty holiday.                                                              
                                                                               
 Number 1179                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if Occidental would be able to take                   
 advantage of CSHB 325 in terms of the settlement agreement between            
 Occidental and the Department of Natural Resources.                           
                                                                               
 Number 1200                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. BEHM said he could  see no affect of CSHB 325 on the                      
 settlement.  Occidental is honoring the terms of the settlement               
 which states that they cannot benefit from changes in state law for           
 a four year period.  He added that at the time of the settlement,             
 heavy oil development at Schrader Bluff was not even a                        
 consideration.                                                                
                                                                               
 Number 1246                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG reviewed the terms of the Occidental litigation.            
 He then asked what Occidental future would be in capital                      
 development if royalty relief was not granted.                                
                                                                               
 Number 1284                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. BEHM said Schrader Bluff is roughly half of the potential of              
 the unit and if it were deemed noncommercial, it would limit                  
 Occidental's investment in the state of Alaska.                               
                                                                               
 Number 1320                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if it would cause Occidental to follow the            
 25 oil companies that have left the state.                                    
                                                                               
 Number 1339                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. BEHM said, as a corporate philosophy, assets are not kept that            
 cannot produce.  He added that there would be a high risk of                  
 Occidental leaving within the next two years and it would be his              
 recommendation that they do so.  Heavy oil investment would not               
 happen without supporting legislation.                                        
                                                                               
 Number 1390                                                                   
                                                                               
 BRUCE POLICKY, Manager, Milne Point Unit, BP Exploration (Alaska)             
 Incorporated, was next to testify.  He said that his                          
 responsibilities include subsurface development at Milne Point.               
 Mr. Policky referred to a handout titled "Heavy Oil Potential at              
 Milne Point" in his testimony.  He said the most promising thing              
 that BP has discovered at Milne Point is that although production             
 rates are low, they hold up over time.  He said that between                  
 Schrader Bluff and the West Sak River there are an estimated 26               
 billion barrels of oil.  Currently there is only .3 percent under             
 development in this area.                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 1572                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. POLICKY said from the first pilot project oil companies have              
 learned how to drill and complete wells in heavy oil areas,                   
 especially how to manage production and costs.  This completion               
 technology can be utilized in future developments.  He said BP is             
 currently setting a platform for future developments slated for               
 1998.  The objective is to demonstrate lower capital costs and                
 higher production rates from the well, or at least what would be              
 feasible.  In 1995, six wells were drilled at a cost of $15                   
 million.  There have been some construction delays in those wells             
 involving the commission of heaters to bring well on line.  This              
 phase should be completed within the next two weeks and no later              
 than the end of February.  The delays did not have to do with the             
 wells, but with the surface facility work.  He said there are                 
 promising developments with electric submersible pump life which              
 has reduced operating costs.                                                  
 Number 1807                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. POLICKY said that in the past the cost of drilling a well in              
 the Schrader Bluff area was $2.4 million.  Currently the cost of              
 drilling a well with the completion costs to $1.6 million to $1.7             
 million.  Work has been done to develop this area with fewer pads             
 and less infrastructure as nearly half the costs of the development           
 are spent in this area.   He discussed new technology including               
 frac packing, electric submersible pumping and heat trace                     
 technology.                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 1980                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. POLICKY said BP would need cost reductions, increased                     
 production and development incentives in order to increase                    
 investment in this area.  He noted the recently passed fiscal note            
 which was passed with the belief that increased production and                
 decreased costs would be all that would be needed to begin heavy              
 oil development.  Mr. Policky stated that BP has yet to come up               
 with a development strategy with just those two factors that would            
 draw international investment.                                                
                                                                               
 Number 2050                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. POLICKY said that within Schrader Bluff there are 2 billion               
 barrels with an ultimate recovery between 200 million to 800                  
 million barrels.  He stated that perhaps this biggest plus for                
 development of Schrader Bluff would be the expansion into adjacent            
 fields.  He said the experience and the increased technologies will           
 be advantageous when you move to other more low lying fields with             
 oils containing lowered API gravities.                                        
                                                                               
 Number 2174                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. POLICKY said HB 325 would reduce uncertainty, encourage                   
 development through less dependance on higher initial production              
 rates, and it would accelerate the pace and increase development              
 scope.  In Schrader Bluff the time lag from incentive to start of             
 investment is short because of the existing infrastructure.  He               
 said that because of the immaturity of the project, the ultimate              
 project scope remains uncertain at this stage.                                
                                                                               
 Number 2200                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked about the decline rates of production in              
 the oil wells.                                                                
                                                                               
 Number 2234                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. POLICKY said decline rates at a Schrader Bluff well experience            
 a steep decline in a period of six months to a year.  A typical               
 well begins with a 300 barrels of oil per day, dropping down to 200           
 barrels of oil per day.  He said long term decline rates of about             
 6 percent a year at Schrader Bluff compared with 15 to 20 percent             
 at Kuparuk and 18 percent at Endicott.                                        
                                                                               
 Number 2267                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if there is a flat production line as a               
 result of continued reinvestment and development of the field.                
                                                                               
 Number 2277                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. POLICKY said there is a nine year period of development of a              
 well.  The first two years consist of the development of a facility           
 followed by continued drilling.  He said there is a 30 to 70                  
 percent production split and inherent within this is a 16 percent             
 recovery factor.  He said that enhanced recovery projects would               
 boost that production rate.                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 2335                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG received confirmation those factors cause the               
 difference between the figures of 300 million and 800 million.                
                                                                               
 Number 2350                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. POLICKY said there are risks of delay and development                     
 especially in the area of development momentum.  He added that                
 anytime projects are delayed economic benefits are deferred and               
 values lost as well as losing the infrastructure.                             
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN referred to the Occidental testimony and asked           
 about the possibility of projects going forward without the royalty           
 holiday.                                                                      
                                                                               
 MR. POLICKY said that the project might or might not go forward.              
 He added that the project would accelerate with the royalty holiday           
 as it pushes investment past the hurdle rate.                                 
                                                                               
 SIDE B                                                                        
 Number 000                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked if the fiscal note was realistic in its            
 supposition that projects would be developed without royalty                  
 holidays.                                                                     
                                                                               
 MR. POLICKY said it is not certain development would occur without            
 incentives.                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 22                                                                     
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE asked about employment expectations.                     
                                                                               
 Number 65                                                                     
                                                                               
 MR. POLICKY said that there are two periods of development.  The              
 initial stage of the first two years would see the employment of              
 350 people, about two-thirds Alaska hire.  The second stage would             
 result in 60 direct jobs a majority of them being locally employed.           
                                                                               
 Number 106                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG pointed out pages 18 and 19 of the report titled,           
 "An Opportunity to Develop Alaska's Heavy Oil Resources."                     
 which listed the impacts of heavy oil development.  He received               
 confirmation that this would be a near term impact because of the             
 infrastructure that is already in place.                                      
                                                                               
 Number 198                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if you had a step-out or a directional well           
 that went down the bore hole, into a different lens of production,            
 beyond whatever you were producing, for purposes of the HB 325,               
 would this be listed as a new well.                                           
                                                                               
 Number 215                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. POLICKY repeated the question by saying that if you had a well            
 and complete it within a particular zone and then sometime later we           
 move up into a second zone, when the question was confirmed, he               
 answered that he would not consider that a second well.                       
                                                                               
 Number 254                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked for the differences in revenue to the state           
 listed in the Occidental testimony.                                           
                                                                               
 MR. POLICKY said figures were developed by creating a ratio to the            
 amount of barrels produced rather than to no increased investment             
 and production.                                                               
                                                                               
 Number 265                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked Mr. Policky to speculate on the overall             
 potential for heavy oil is and how it would affect the life of the            
 pipeline.                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 284                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. POLICKY said the University of Alaska-Anchorage study said that           
 increased flow of oil means decreased tariffs which results in                
 decreased field costs.  If the life of the pipeline is extended               
 this results in the increased well head value, in existing fields,            
 of approximately $60 million to $80 million.  Within the Milne                
 Point Unit, total production field rates could reach 60,000 barrels           
 per day and rates could be higher within the Kuparuk River Unit as            
 well.                                                                         
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG recognized the attendance of Representative                 
 Finkelstein at 10:05 a.m.                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 370                                                                    
                                                                               
 KENNETH A. BOYD, Director, Division of Oil and Gas, Department of             
 Natural Resources, was next to testify.  He announced that he was             
 accompanied by Bill Van Dyke.  He said that HB 325 does not include           
 any economic analysis.  He said the presentations by Occidental and           
 BP do provide some numbers but not the information backing those              
 numbers.  He said that these numbers might be applicable to any               
 operator on the North Slope.  He said the numbers of five years,              
 500 barrels, assume that all operators on the North Slope will have           
 the same analysis.  He added that there is no assurance that oil              
 companies will continue to produce oil past the five year royalty             
 holiday.  The Administrations position is that HB 207 is a better             
 vehicle to craft royalty reduction.                                           
                                                                               
 Number 498                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. BOYD said that the testimony of Mr. Policky is not enough                 
 guarantee that multilateral wells would be interpreted as just one            
 well by other oil companies.                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 530                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN asked if there were any provisions in              
 the royalty law that would address misuse of the royalty reduction.           
                                                                               
 Number 561                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. BOYD said the Administration believes the 3 percent floor would           
 hold.  He added another factor that would prevent misuse is                   
 Occidental's settlement with DNR.  After HB 325 oil companies would           
 not be able to use HB 207 on the leases that were changed from 20             
 percent to 12.5 percent.                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 604                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked for a methodology for the fiscal note where           
 the Division of Oil and Gas is estimating a per well change in                
 revenues of $28,000 per well per year.                                        
                                                                               
 Number 615                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. BOYD said they took the 500 barrel per day maximum, and                   
 multiplied it 12.5 percent royalty rate and then multiplied it by             
 a net factor of $10 a barrel, multiplied by 365 days.                         
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG pointed out that if no wells are drilled then the           
 loss to the state is zero which was confirmed by Mr. Boyd who then            
 reiterated the Administration's position.                                     
                                                                               
 Number 667                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS asked for a written explanation from the              
 Division of Oil and Gas as to how HB 207 would effect heavy oil.              
 He questioned the logic of the Administrations criticism of a                 
 guarantee that heavy oil wells would still produce after the five             
 year royalty suspension.  He then asked what type of guarantee the            
 Administration would want.                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 735                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. BOYD said there is no guarantee in any provision, but that HB
 207, as compared to HB 325, allows the commissioner to make the               
 decision, on whether or not an oil development needs assistance,              
 based on real economic analysis.                                              
                                                                               
 Number 788                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS asked if HB 207 would cause problems in               
 project development delay.                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 830                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. BOYD said that HB 207 would require an application process and            
 the analysis process which would take an estimated three to six               
 months.                                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 860                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN asked the history of applications from             
 the North Slope oil industry under past or present provisions.                
                                                                               
 Number 870                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. BOYD said no oil company has applied under the new provisions.            
                                                                               
 Number 908                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if Alaska had granted any type of royalty             
 reduction under prior statute.                                                
                                                                               
 Number 928                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. BOYD described the settlement with Occidental.                            
                                                                               
 Number 969                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked and received confirmation that HB 325 does            
 not need the commissioners or the Governor's approval.                        
                                                                               
 MR. BOYD said HB 325 would have only minor administrative costs.              
 He then expressed concern as to potential cost to the state if the            
 analysis required under HB 207 were not done.                                 
                                                                               
 Number 1027                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if the long range predictions of increased            
 revenues to the state under HB 325 out weigh the short term losses            
 in revenue.                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 1060                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. BOYD said there is no way he could answer that question.                  
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN asked if historically the position of              
 the administration is to weigh each situation on a case by case               
 basis and to utilize the resources at the DNR and the Division of             
 Oil and Gas.  This question was affirmed by Mr. Boyd at which time            
 Representative Finkelstein stated that HB 325 eliminates any                  
 administrative discretion.                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 1139                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHARLES LOGSDON, Chief Petroleum Economist, Oil and Gas Audit                 
 Division, Department of Revenue, was next to testify.  He said the            
 fiscal note is based on the DOR's Fall 1995 forecast from predicted           
 royalties, as communicated by the industry, from the Schrader Bluff           
 area.                                                                         
                                                                               
 Number 1199                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG received confirmation that the fiscal note of a             
 negative $50 million is based on the development plans of BP but              
 that it does not include the potential development of 230 wells               
 over nine years in Schrader Bluff alone.  He then restated the                
 testimony as to possible increased revenues for heavy oil                     
 development and asked if it would be a fair analysis of the                   
 situation.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 1295                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. LOGSDEN stated that this is an unanswerable question as it all            
 revolves around the ability to project oil prices and said he is              
 unprepared to answer it.                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1323                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN reiterated the argument that because of            
 the employment factor there are short term as well as long term               
 benefits to the state.  He said that because we do not generate a             
 personal income tax or a sales tax isn't this factor a negative               
 loss to the state because of the public services provided.                    
                                                                               
 Number 1390                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. LOGSDEN said the focus on has been on the state revenues side             
 and not on other factors.                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 1416                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if the CSHB 325 fixed well head price of              
 $15 would be a fair amount.                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 1446                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. LOGSDEN said he believes that royalty suspension could be done            
 under the DNR's supervision, but said the $15 amount would be a               
 step in the right direction to truncate the risk to the state.                
                                                                               
 Number 1487                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if the $15 relates to the $24 federal                 
 government West Texas Intermediate price.                                     
                                                                               
 MR. LOGSDEN said that it would be in the ball park considering the            
 added costs associated with heavy oil and the transportation costs.           
                                                                               
 Number 1530                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said there is a difference between the DOR's Fall           
 and the Spring Forecast of 1995 especially in regards to the                  
 peripheral smaller wells, such as those located in Schrader Bluff.            
                                                                               
 MR. LOGSDEN said he assumed that the difference involves the                  
 proposed development schedule in Schrader Bluff.                              
                                                                               
 Number 1624                                                                   
                                                                               
 JON TILLINGHAST, Attorney, OXY USA, Incorporated, was next to                 
 testify.  He explained that HB 207 was a general royalty reduction            
 bill for all types of fields in all parts of the state.  At the               
 development of HB 207 it was felt that the special considerations             
 regarding heavy oil development should be addressed in a separate             
 bill.  He said that HB 207 uses a prolonged royalty reduction and             
 precludes royalty suspension.  He said the administrative process,            
 required of major producers as well as small producers, is the                
 same.                                                                         
                                                                               
 Number 1864                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN asked why the provision of HB 207,                 
 involving a minor 3 percent expense to the industry, arrived at by            
 consensus, is now being questioned.                                           
                                                                               
 Number 1969                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. TILLINGHAST referred to the handout titled "An Opportunity to             
 Develop Alaska's Heavy Oil Resources" and specified page 39 which             
 was a comparative analysis of the different fiscal impacts.  He               
 said the differences between the royalty suspension compared to the           
 5 percent royalty found in HB 207 was not significant over time,              
 but noted the significant negative impact upon the state in the               
 long run with a 5 percent royalty.  He then added that if you add             
 the administrative costs with the costs of the administrative                 
 process it is significant.  He said it cost Occidental $200,000 the           
 last time they went through the process.                                      
                                                                               
 Number 2126                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. TILLINGHAST said DNR's position in regards to prolonging the              
 economic life of a well has historically been interpreted as                  
 prolonging operating revenue and not assisting with inducement of             
 capital investment.                                                           
                                                                               
 Number 2208                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN pointed out that HB 207 is discretionary, and            
 because HB 325 is not it is more likely to induce industries to               
 develop heavy oil.                                                            
                                                                               
 Number 2254                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG mentioned that HB 207 received a 3 percent floor            
 in the Senate Finance Committee.                                              
                                                                               
 Number 2312                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN asked about amending HB 207 to eliminate           
 the floor.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 2345                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. TILLINGHAST mentioned the difficulties about just changing one            
 section of HB 207.  He then reiterated the administrative costs               
 involved and its hinderance on smaller companies.  He said                    
 Occidental would not apply, even if they could under HB 207,                  
 because of the costs and the time lag.  In Occidentals case the               
 settlement took one to two years.                                             
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said he was going to hold off on a amendment for            
 a floor.                                                                      
                                                                               
 TAPE 96-2, SIDE A                                                             
 Number 000                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS made a motion that CSHB 325 be moved out of           
 committee.                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN objected to the motion.  He requested a            
 hearing on a proposed amendment in which heavy oil fields can                 
 receive a royalty reduction consideration.                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said that Representative Finkelstein was somewhat           
 out of order in that he had not prepared a written version of the             
 proposed amendment.  He said that in the interests of the committee           
 they would vote on Representative Williams motion.                            
                                                                               
 Number 80                                                                     
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN again requested that he be allowed to              
 submit his proposed amendment.  A discussion ensued regarding                 
 whether or not it was an amendment to HB 325 or whether it was a              
 separate bill.                                                                
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG called for a vote on the motion to pass CSHB 325            
 out of the House Special Committee on Oil and Gas.  Representatives           
 Rokeberg, Ogan, G. Davis, Williams, and B. Davis voted yea.                   
 Representative Finkelstein voted nay.  Representative Brice was               
 absent for the vote.  The motion to pass CSHB 325 succeeded.                  
 ADJOURNMENT                                                                   
                                                                               
 There being no further business to come before the House Oil & Gas            
 Special Committee, Chairman Rokeberg adjourned the meeting at 10:47           
 p.m.                                                                          
                                                                               
                                                                               

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